S2 E100: Team Love Redeems Founder

This week, we wrap up Season 2 with a significant milestone - our 100th episode! To celebrate, we're having fan favorite Mark Ross return to interview Winston about his entrepreneurial journey to creating, For Love of Team.

“You know the term “For love of the Game”?

I was on a walk one day, and somehow, it just came to my mind that for love of team was what I was missing as the CEO of a very successful multi-million dollar company.

I had started a business because I had an idea of how I could help other people with a product and a service that I loved. When that was established, I moved to loving the client. I wanted to give them the ultimate experience that was just as good or not better than the product itself. I knew that if they had a great experience with what we were offering it would help us win more business.

But I only kept my focus right there.

Instead of looking at my team as the foundation of our success, I saw them as an impediment to being more creative and serving our clients. 

More often than I should have I took the side of the client. Even though our team had a good process, had good boundaries, and good guardrails, they were to blame if client expectations were not met. 

My team was looking for how we could protect the quality of the service, they were looking for ways to protect and scale how we could do it. And I would inevitably take the side of the client and I put our team under tremendous pressure. 

That works for maybe a short season, but if that's constantly the culture that you're creating - it's a toxic work culture. That was a reflection of me as a toxic leader back then. 

Now I see our work here at  ‘For Love of Team’ as a redemption story. Helping founders and leaders avoid the mistakes I made and instead multiplying their impact and income by…

"Doing work you love, in a business you love, with a team you love.”

- Winston

#TeamLOVE Book. Join the bold book writing journey as we write and share our first draft chapters from our upcoming book - Team Love: 28 Ways to Demonstrate Caring at Work here in season 3 of the For Love of Team podcast.

Be notified each week about a new episode and follow our journey at TeamLoveBook.com

Transcript

Winston Faircloth 0:00
Because your your clients experience with your product or service will never exceed the love that you have for your team period, they are your representatives. And the more we pour love into our team, the greater the client experience, the better the products will be. And so it's so against the grain of what we're taught in management school, the customer's always right, got to do what the customer wants, they're the ones that are paying the bills.

Mark Ross  0:00  
Well, hey everyone. This is not Winston Faircloth, it is Mark Ross. And this is the love of team podcast. We're flipping the script today. And I'm interviewing Winston for his podcast. And this is going to be a real treat. I'm a friend and colleague and admire of Winston's. And this is the wrap up of season two, in the celebration of Episode Number 100. So welcome Winston to your podcast,

Winston Faircloth  0:29  
Mark, it is so good to be here. And I'm so glad you're here and doing this, this is a great honor to have you. Especially because you've been part of my journey for so long. And I'm so thankful that you're here and that you're providing this awesome service.

Mark Ross  0:45  
Well, it's a pleasure to be invited. And it's my pleasure, for sure. So when you hear wrapping up the second season, and this is episode number 100. What stirs up inside of you?

Winston Faircloth  0:59  
Well, I think, you know, I think of 100 is a pretty significant milestone. I know, in life, you know, Willard Scott used to celebrate 100 birthdays with his call. And he just shows a level of perseverance. It shows a level of stick to itiveness Whoo, that's a hard word. But you know, more than anything else is just I'm so thankful for the folks who've listened, provided their feedback, provided their ideas, and it's just been it's a great milestone and wonderful way to celebrate.

Mark Ross  1:33  
Wow, well, congratulations. I do remember the beginning days. And it's a it's a, it's encouraging to see where how it's evolved and where it is today. So you've been on a journey that's been unfolding? Well, your whole life, but especially the last seven ish years, have been with quite a few changes. What if we trace this back to the beginning with the begin, again, notion that you had and how this how this began?

Winston Faircloth  2:00  
Yeah, thanks, Mark. You know, I would say that, I think many of us as we get to different stages of life, we have these forks in the road or pivots. I've had my share of those. And one of the things that really as I thought about coming to the air with a podcast, I thought about, well, how can I share some of those stories and more importantly, give people encouragement that these forks in the road are not like, life or death, a lot of times they are little pivots or little changes. And the story of me seven years ago was that I was I felt called and led to step out of something I'd spent 15 years building. And I was working in a not for profit, shared services, tech technology company, a lot of wonderful experience doing that built it from an idea, something I needed. When I was a not for profit leader, we were really fortunate to be surrounded with some awesome people, wonderful technologists. I'm one of the least technical people, you know, Mark, I have a hard time switching between the phone calls, you know, if there wasn't a red and a green button, I'm not sure how I would do that with a second call coming in. But I was a great translator between people who needed technology support and, and gifted technology people. But I did that for 15 years. And I just was running out of juice, I was feeling not fulfilled. And I just felt this nudge to begin again. And it represented that season, the next couple years giving up a career. And my identity was very much tied to that. Changing cities and states changing relationship status. So many things that I had self identified with, were either I initiated a change or were stripped away from me. And it was a really tough season. But a very, you know, looking back now a very important season. And so you know, begin again was really meant to be an encouragement to people going through a really difficult series of transitions. And to and to say hey, just keep one step in front of the other you know, part of the to was just bringing people onto the podcast who had their own stories to share.

Mark Ross  4:18  
Yeah, well, that was a lot to change from corporate to this new world of what a great name begin again, what do you think helped you through that period of transition? The most,

Winston Faircloth  4:32  
I think having a compelling while having a North Star that you're moving to, you know, rather than running from certain things running to something that was better or you perceive to be better. You know, I will say I'll raise my hand as a budding entrepreneur over those seven years, is that one of the big surprises to me is how very little of my plan has really come to fruition. And that's been a real blessing to me like any Anybody else who has an idea in a dream, I had a business plan. I had this big series of ideas I wanted to bring to the market. First thing was a total flop crickets. Yeah, it was great. It was a lot of fun to explore and to talk to people about. But what ended up happening, Mark vocationally was that in that first business that I launched coming out of that role, I really didn't. It was about me, I think fundamentally, the challenge was, I was building the business for me, instead of how I could serve others. And that was a real contrast between that business and the business that had done so well, for 15 years, that was all about a problem of solving for others. launching this, this first business coming out of this in this seven year period was I just need to replace my income. And that was the agenda and I was going to be scrappy, and resourceful and figure it out. And it really never got traction, because it wasn't focused on helping others.


Mark Ross  6:02  
Yeah, you know, Winston, great, great recounting of that story, and so many who are starting something new after having done something for a very long time, they've experienced success, and now they're in that place where you were for that period of newness. What would you say to those listening today to encourage them with that roller coaster of emotions? And what was going on at that time? What How would you encourage them today, this moment,

Winston Faircloth  6:29  
I'd say that it's really important to dial up your your values, and dial up, you know, what's important to you. And center in on that, because there's a million ways you can serve people, there are a million ways that you can create a business and, and create products and services. But it really needs to be true to you unique gifting the unique experiences that you've had. And I would say if I had one big lesson from that early stage of my entrepreneurial years, it's that the answers aren't out there with a bunch of gurus and courses and and things like that it really godson planted that inside of you giving you dreams and desires giving you gifting. And I think the more you go in, to really mind that instead of trying to copy somebody else, you know, you work in the world of art and visual arts. And you know, those the originals always so much better than the reproduction.

Mark Ross  7:32  
Yeah, it's like so many of us are just trying to find our voice. And for a while we may copy or emulate someone. But eventually, if it's not our voice that we hear and express, it really falls flat. So, man, I've seen you grow over these years. And you moved into the beginning again, era of Winston Faircloth, and that somehow morphed and pivoted and shifted into for the love of team what what was going on at that time. 

Winston Faircloth  8:02  
That change happened about a year ago, you know, the pandemic, at the beginning of the pandemic was such a trying period for folks. And, you know, it was a forced pause in many, many ways. And I had, you know, so if I look back over this year, you know, this entrepreneurial season of my career, launched crickets. And eventually, I got a little bit of traction. But then I went into a corporate role, because I wasn't getting the traction, I thought, maybe I just need to go back and get a job. we exited that after a change of ownership. And so I was back into the entrepreneurial game. And I decided to launch the new business a few months just before the pandemic. And I was so frustrated, because I thought I had learned some real lessons from that first phase, I was ready to apply it again. You know, the pandemic comes in, if you're a fledgling little business coming out of the ground, and you don't have a lot of customers and don't have a lot of voice out there. It was really tough. I ended up mark, you may remember this season, I ended up taking a bit of sabbatical right at the beginning of the pandemic, we call it retirement, and you were part of my life then. And we were really talking about how to work through this season. And I took, you know, 30 days off from everything, shut down the business, shut down the social media, shut down the consumption of courses and everything else, and just really tried to dial in. And you know, at the end of 30 days, it's like, well, if I don't feel any better about this, I'm going to take another 30 days, so I ended up doing 60 days of just shutting down the business and during that time, I started finding a contrast between that very successful it business for 15 years. And then that next business that happened right after that, a lot of contrast I mentioned one earlier which was Who are you who you really serving with your business business. When I was serving others business to I was serving myself. But then I went back to business number one, and I said, Well, why did it not continue to grow? While I was there, in the end, it popped into my head, I was on a walk one day, and it popped into, you've heard the term for love of the game. That's a very familiar sports term. And somehow, it just came to my mind that for love of team was what I was missing, as the CEO of a very successful multi million dollar company. Here's the progression, I started that business because I had an idea of how I could help other people, I loved the product and the service. And then people start paying a sport, man, that's cool. So then I moved to loving the client, I wanted to give them the ultimate experience that was just as good or not better than the product itself, I knew that if they had a great experience with what we were offering, that that would help us win more business, keep business and continue to grow the organization. But I kept my growth right there. Because I saw the team as almost like an impediment to being more creative, and and serving our clients. And so often, more often than I should have took the side of the client, even though our team had really good process had really good boundaries had really good guardrails, they were looking for how we could protect the quality of the service, they were looking for ways to protect and scale how we could do it. And I would inevitably take the side of the client. And it's like, we got to figure this out. And I put our team under tremendous pressure. And that works for maybe a short season. But if that's constantly the culture that you're creating, he created, really a kind of a toxic work culture, that was a reflection of me as a toxic leader. And so I see for love of team as almost like a bit of a redemption story. Because if I can help other founders, realize that you're going to absolutely love your product and service, and you're going to absolutely love your clients. But you need to take it to that next level. Because your your clients experience with your product or service will never exceed the love that you have for your team period, they are your representatives. And the more we pour love into our team, the greater the client experience, the better the products will be. And so it's so against the grain of what we're taught in management school, the customer's always right, got to do what the customer wants, they're the ones that are paying the bills. And so set me on a journey of really kind of digging into that, learning about other companies who are really our team first. And people first. And there's surprisingly a lot more out there than you think. And I wanted to give them a place where we could showcase some of their lessons. And so became you know, for love of team for me is a bit of a calling, if you will, in terms of saying you know, at least be on par If you're going to love a part of your business, at least put your team on par with your love for these other things. I know everyone's got a different personality, they're wired differently as a founder creator. So at least put them on par. But I would argue ultimately, that the love of your product and the love of your clients is going to just be multiplied when you really pour into your team. Wow, that that, uh,

Mark Ross  13:27  
as you were describing that transition Winston, it reminded me of begin again, that theme that you had issue ushered away from what you had been doing and into this new new season of life. I wonder curious is that it was that like begin again for myself? Because I want to serve others in a new way. And through that experience, you discovered, well, here's the even larger Why is so that I can help others in organizations develop a love for team and help them with specific ways to do that. And the larger why now is to serve in that way. Just curious.

Winston Faircloth  14:06  
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I feel like I've found something out of my own experience. And I think, Mark, you and I've talked about this a lot over the years that I think a lot of creative people, entrepreneurs really do their best work when they're coming out of their own experience, something that they've experienced themselves, maybe a wound, maybe an opportunity that they've seen. And so for me, and one of the best interviews in this whole series, has been when I brought my successor on the podcast, the person who came behind the toxic environment and culture that I created. And his answer was that he just, he really pours into his people. I had had that contrast before and I knew inviting him on the podcast would be a little bit of a hard thing for me to hear. But I thought was so important for us. To hear it, because that's the difference. I mean, he has a very thriving culture today. Because he respects his people, he honors them. He listens to them. Can't we all benefit as leaders from that message? I think so.

Mark Ross  15:15  
Yeah. You know, folks, I know folks, we've known him in the past. We know now who this concept, an idea ideal maybe of for love of team. It's like we're, we're in a big hurry. There's urgent matters, there's pressures, there's expectations. Where's this room for love of team? How does that fit in? What would you? What would you say to that?

Winston Faircloth  15:38  
Well, I know that people don't want to use the word love and does. Okay, let's just be honest, it's a doggy dog world, you know, supposedly, that the business world is all about, I think, undoing a toxic culture. undoing a bad hire, costs you way more than building it with intention and love on the front end, you know, so while it may be more expedient, to tell people in the very directive and an almost obnoxious boss, you know, you've been, you've probably worked with these people who, you know, have to exert so much control, and they tell you every little way they want things done. You know, I don't know about you, Mark, but I don't necessarily like looking forward to coming in and being told to, to perform robotically. For other people, I want to bring my gifts, my talents, my perspective, my value into an organization. And so you know, part of this is also kind of equipping the leader with some new ideas. I do think so this is you didn't ask this, but I will say it, I think that our management culture is broken. It is a function of our industrial age, culture that many of us grew up in where it was very robotic, very cog in the wheel type situation, I think a lot of language in business kind of reflects this mindset. When we say staff, or employee versus collaborator, I think if someone is a staff person, it feels very paternalistic. To me, it feels very top down to me versus today in this environment. People who are gifted and talented, want autonomy to create. So we equip them with a compelling what success looks like. And this North Star of what why is why we're pursuing that. We leave the house to them. You know, it's, that's where they can make the contribution. And if I didn't need that contribution, I wouldn't even have the position. So I think that so much of our culture of management, leadership, language is important. And also, our actions are important that back that up as

Mark Ross  17:55  
a great, great description of that. Great description. Winston, thank you. I was curious myself. How would you describe Winston Faircloth? Today? How are you different from who? Who Winston was seven years ago?

Winston Faircloth  18:07  
Well, I was one of those controlling obnoxious bosses. Let's start with that. I mean, the fact that I would throw my team under the bus routinely, to meet a client's perceived need, and not even really being all that discerning about whether this is like a preference or requirement. That's one level of discernment. But then to really discern and listen to the people who are closest to the action, right, versus thinking I have to have all the answers and I you know, if I don't somehow I'm a weak leader. So that guy, fortunately, is been retired, the new guy is really learner. I'm a learner in this new role. I am learning that my team responds so much better. When I'm very clear on that, why? That's like the number one thing they want to know, I used to take why that question as a challenge to my authority. And it's not, it's really just an invitation to share your thinking about the context, because a lot of times the team members don't have the big picture. They have their piece of the elephant that and they're also bringing their experiences to the table. And if you can unify the group on a very compelling why and and what success looks like that we're all clear on, you know, what is that goal line that we're pursuing? How can be super creative, by the way, people who are gifted at certain things are going to have a way better way of describing that how than I could ever come up with or dream up. I'd make it way too complicated. I'd make it way too. You know, they cut through that. So I welcome that. So I feel like I am a learner. I am I am observing the team that we bring on. I look at their gifts. I try to match that up the best I can. But then I try to stay the heck out of their way. It doesn't mean I'm abdicating responsibility, because I am trying to be as clear. And we will keep talking about until we're mutually clear on what those things are. That takes time. But it delivers so much better results. And I love it. I love being part of that group so much more because we I see things that I couldn't even imagine people are bringing their gifting, and it's a lot of fun.

Mark Ross  20:22  
No, Wednesday, you've used the word surrender, when I'm around you, how does that fit in with everything you've said, so far in this conversation?

Winston Faircloth  20:32  
Well, I want to go back to so if people want to understand surrender, from a business perspective, I would say that if I look back, and I'm, I think I'm a pretty reasonably smart guy. But I would say that if I look back over my beautiful, well thought, well conceived business plans, and I look back at my revenue over the last seven years, I would bet you that maybe less than 10% of my total revenue came from my beautiful business plan. And instead, the 90%. And I would say this past 12 months, it's like 99% of my revenue has come from things where I've just said yes to being useful to other people. People see in you, especially as you show up in the marketplace, they see something in you and your business that sometimes you don't see. And it's that magic of surrendering to what others see as useful and helpful to them. And being nimble enough to be And fortunately, I'm not like this massive company with, you know, all this legacy products and services. So early in stage, I think it's actually cool to be able to be nimble and be responsive in this way. But I bet you even larger businesses, if you look at the blockbusters of the world, or the Kodak cameras of the world, these guys were asked to do something that was a little bit out of their norm, they discovered it earlier than everyone else. And yet they did not pursue it. And now they're on the duct tape of, you know, massive companies that they once were. So I would say, you know, even if you are an established company, this concept of being useful to others, and being responsive to that, versus pursuing your, your brilliant business plan is a great strategy. I'm just speaking from personal experience. And the other part of that is not being so attached to the outcomes. That's the other part of surrender to me, the more I try to hit a number in business, the further it seems to be, and and yet, serving out of, you know, our friend Dan Miller talks about serving out of a full cup. That's kind of the same principle to surrender and, and being just responsive. So I am learning mark to just get out of the way of my business. And I don't even want to call it my business anymore. You'll notice on the web presence up, drop the personal branding. It was Winston Faircloth calm. Now, it's for love of team.com. Because I don't want it to be about me. I want it to be about the larger vision and the larger team that we're going to have supporting this, this this vision is not about me.

Mark Ross  23:24  
So Winston Faircloth has been living a long, fruitful life. It's had some ups and downs, like we all experienced seven years ago. It's just again, again, the moment of transitioning into how do I make this work in this season, and all the the surrender and the inner learning and the experimentation and exploration led to for the love of team. What's next for Winston. And for the love of team?

Winston Faircloth  23:54  
Well, I'm I'm super excited to continue this path of being useful. You know, for example, we've got a new product that we think is going to be really useful in the marketplace, we call it unlock. And basically the principle behind it is is that many times your leadership teams only know their piece of the elephant. They only know their department, their division, their area of responsibility. And so when it comes to breakthrough ideas in the company, it's tough to do that because we only know our lane. And so unlock works with existing leadership teams to help bridge that level of understanding give them more context and give them more information about the overall business but more importantly, develop a shared understanding about what facts metrics in the business mean over time. And so we actually do that without the leader in the room. We do adjust with the team and they instead of like a typical consulting type situation, no one's going back home writing a report and putting it on the shelf. The Team writes the report and delivers the report to the leader in 48 hours. It's a fascinating experiment, thought experiment, but actually has practical application where the team develops new innovations in a very short period of time. And more importantly, they own it. Now, Mark, that sounds like a cool thing for established businesses. And that was the plan. That's the plan going into last part of 21. And 22. What's interesting to me is that since I've been talking about this with some of my friends in the, in the solopreneur space, I said, well, gosh, wouldn't it be cool if I had a team to help me looked at my business that way. And so a, one of the things that's cooking right now is that we're figuring out a way to do that same kind of concept, with solopreneurs, where you're working with other solopreneurs, who formed your temporary team, may become your board of directors as a result of this. And so, you know, what I thought was a brilliant business plan, once again, is now beginning to morph and change so that it can serve earlier stage businesses in a very affordable way. So who knows where this goes, but here's the here's the core principle. I think, you know, I think the love chapter in the Bible is like the ultimate leadership standard. You know, if we were patient kind, we weren't envious or boastful, not proud and dishonouring others, for example, as leaders, how would our teams respond? They would respond very, very well.

Mark Ross  26:35  
This, this is a good place, right here, such great timing, to allow you the opportunity to amplify what you just said, By showing some love for your team. And how do you want to love on?

Winston Faircloth  26:49  
Oh, my goodness, I just want to, you know, because people have seen on the podcast they've just seen that heard me, but they've not heard from my team. And so I just want to celebrate, and thank three members of my team in particular who are behind the scenes and doing all the great legwork. Amanda Kelly, first and foremost, Amanda has been part of this journey for over five years, she has seen so many pivots, and so many different ups and downs in the business. And yet she's been a constant, john, but who is going to make a sound great in terms of engineering, this podcast, Mark, he is behind the scenes, he's a great individual, just such full heart, and he has this gift for finding ways to be of service to others in technology. And he does a great job of engineering the podcast and getting it ready. And then Laura Armstrong, who is our newest team member, Laura is helping amplify this message and getting it out through social media for us, and helping me think about how the business can reach people that we want to serve. So all three of these folks who've been integral to, you know, making this pivot making this change.

Mark Ross  28:04  
I've had the pleasure of getting note two of the members, and I give extra hugs as well. And I'm sure I'd love the third, just like you, Winston, what have we not talked about that you think is important to to make known, if this time

Winston Faircloth  28:20  
given us us such great questions, such deep questions, Mark, so thank you for that. You know, I feel like I think it's important for folks to understand that being an entrepreneur and being a founder can be a really lonely spot. And so I think finding your tribe, finding the people who are, you know, going along the journey alongside you is so important. Your Mark, you're very familiar with the power of community, in the work that you do. And so I think it's finding your tribe and just pouring into them with your mask off. Everybody is you know, while the front stage may look beautiful, the backstage in many of our businesses needs attention and work. And so there's no The only way that we lose if we go back to the beginning again statement, the only way we fail is when we stop that we stopped pursuing the dream we stopped pursuing the call that we feel upon our life so you know, taking the next right step mark, your company talks about this, you know, the next right thing. It's it is taking that next right action is what will bring us surprising results.

Mark Ross  29:37  
You know, yesterday I was out on a bike ride and I listened to the very first podcasts on begin again. And you just echoed what you said then, and it's so important to remind ourselves that we there's a sign that someone had hanging above their computer in their new entrepreneurial startup that said reminder You can always quit tomorrow. And that I think it's a great reminder, the only way to lose is to quit sometimes. So Winston, what's the best way for anyone, and I'm sure it's everyone who would want to connect with

Winston Faircloth  30:14  
you. Well come to our new website, which is called for love of team.com. unveiling over time, we're not we're going to release it as it is. And it's going to be this organic growing resource for startup entrepreneurs and leadership teams, to help them really level up their love of their team. Again, we're not going to turn the world around of management. But we are going to speak to those who really are hitting that wall, they're hitting that wall of where they love their clients so much, that they don't have the culture, they don't have the team that they want. And so we're going to really pour into those folks and hopefully, be more of a preventive strategy so that those founders and leaders as you're building out your business, consider that cultural element right out of the gate.

Mark Ross  31:09  
That's awesome. I'm going to turn your podcast back over to you, and invite you to end this podcast. To wrap up season two, and to celebrate Episode 100. However you want to conclude, Winston

Winston Faircloth  31:25  
Awesome, thank you Mark, again for this gift of helping me reflect over the first 100 episodes and over this season of my career. So thank you friend for, for doing this. And for everyone, I just wanted to come on here and say to thank you for being part of this podcast community for the last 100 episodes. It's we've had some amazing guests with some great wisdom. And, and for now we're going to take a pause on the podcast. It's I think we've accomplished what we wanted to in terms of introducing this concept both begin again and for love of team. And I'm thinking about new ways and reaching and connecting with our community. And so we're not saying goodbye but we're we are going to put the podcast on pause for a bit. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for sharing this message. You know, just always remember that your team's success. The way you love. Your team is a leading indicator of your success in business. And I believe by loving your team you multiply your impact your income, your freedom, in life and in business. So be blessed friends. Thanks for listening

Transcribed by https://otter.ai