S2 E71: Puzzle Pieces Coming Together | Bobby Klinck & Katie Chase

Ever heard: “When people pay, they pay attention” or “The transformation is in the transaction”? 

That’s just one of the myths that we’re busting in the next 2 episodes of For Love of Team. I’m joined by the powerhouse duo of Team Klinck - Bobby Klinck and Katie Chase.  Bobby is the founder/visionary and Katie is the integrator and team lead for the business.

The three of us take a deep dive into everything team - including the 2 different times Bobby’s peers told him that he was making a big mistake in who he hired and how he paid them...and what happened when he ignored them all.

And we explore how Bobby and Katie work together to develop a team of individuals who are excited to work for Team Klinck, are proud of the work they’re doing, and who support the vision wholeheartedly. 

In this conversation, you’ll get:

• One way online marketers have been playing a never-ending game of “telephone” and how you can stop it
• The joy of building a team you love when the “puzzle pieces just fit together” 
• The answer to the age-old question of the chicken or the egg when it’s time to build your team
• Exactly how the visionary and integrator work together to build and integrate the team
• How the best team members support each other to focus on the vision and feel safe at work 
• When to go against common wisdom to grow your business
• The ONE word you have to coach your team to use!
• What happens when your team isn’t just a cog in the business but is actually part of it
• The 3 personalities that you need in a business
• Core values aren’t just about how you run your business and what offers you have...it’s also how you treat each other

And, tune in next week to hear about how Bobby pranked his entire audience during his live event and what happened afterward.

Link:  BobbyKlinck.com

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Transcript

Bobby Klinck: 0:00

That's the approach I bring to life. I'm like, Look, if there's a mistake in my business, it's mine. It's on me. It's on anyone else. And so I think that level of responsibility and again in Good to Great the way Jim Collins describes it is these great leaders mistakes are on me greatness is on my team. And I honestly believe that I mean, because I can see, you know, my team, my growth has exploded since I brought a team on and they do things in a way that I could never have done.

Winston Faircloth: 0:25

Either multipliers it's Winston Faircloth, and welcome to Episode 71. This is the podcast.

Unknown: 0:33

Simplifying teamwork.

Winston Faircloth: 0:35

Helping you surround yourself with others doing the work they love. simplifying your business processes, so that you can serve more focused on the work that you love. And before we began part one of today's special guest episode, I'm thrilled to share with you that for love team retreats are coming starting next month. These are invitation only intimate and immersive experiences. That covers our for love of team method, helping you start or build a team that you love. You'll leave with clarity, confidence and commitment, and building the team that fits you, your clients and your desired impact. And we're going to offer two different retreat styles. First are in person retreats, we're going to be hosting in 2021. Three different in person retreats for up to seven business founders each. Over the coming months, one will be at the beach, one will be at the mountains and one will be in an urban setting. And these are all inclusive with lodging, food community and content provided, you just have to meet us at our private location. And secondly, we have the virtual retreat. And this is perfect if you want to save travel time and money for love of team comes to you with our remote retreat, the same great content and community along with some special surprises. for about one third off the imperson retreat investment we pass our savings on to you both offer lots of space for for reflection and connection so you can craft the team of your dreams. And if you're curious, send me a text. Here's my personal number. And I'll repeat it again at the end of the podcast. 1-754-800-9461. That's 1754 800-800-9461. For more information. Let's just have a conversation. And now let's let's introduce today's special guest Bobby clink is a Harvard lawyer turned online entrepreneur. He's host of the certified baddest online marketing podcast and creator of the entirely free badass online marketing university or bomb you to help you avoid death by 1000 courses. I think that's his tagline. And Katie Chase is Bobby's integrator, aka the number two in the business a person responsible for converting vision into action. And as an entrepreneur herself, she brings heart and organization in managing the team that brings Bobby's vision to life helping him stay focused on what he loves to do. Our interview is wide ranging fun, a little irreverent, engaging, let's buckle up and find out what it's like when a visionary is paired with an integrator, I thought it'd be great just to kind of start out with both heroes backstories in terms of how we got to this place, but Bobby, a lot of people know you. You're out there, you're the guy I most admire in terms of not going with the flow and going with your gut. And so I think it'd be great just to get your backstory and Katie, your backstory as part of the intro.

Bobby Klinck: 3:50

I mean, I guess my backstory is, you know, there's a lot to it. And it depends on how, you know, I can tell it in two minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, two hours. But I guess what I'll say is this, like, I've always been a bit different of an understatement way of saying it, but I never fit in, I was always a person who was a bit different. And some of the stuff I didn't realize other people were doing. Like, I've just come to this realization lately, I have asked why more than probably anyone else out there. Maybe not more than anyone else. But I asked why constantly, I always want to understand why I'm doing something why someone's telling me to do something, why are we doing it this way. And I've never been one to simply take kind of the standard as as a way to go. And so that's my background of who I am as a person in a lot of ways. And then I go and I go to Harvard Law School and become a lawyer and you know, you're kind of steeped in a lot of this, like, this is how it's done, etc. But at the same time, they encouraged I mean, I took courses there and it was not you didn't assume judges were right. You question you thought about it, you did all that stuff. And so that was my training and then I become a lawyer and who That was not the right career choice for me. Because I spent all of my time basically fighting with people. And for 17 years of my life, I was fighting with people. And anyone who knows me well enough, knows, that's not who I am. I enjoy having like, you know, Katie, and I will have long discussions, debates, talk about ideas, talk about that. But actually, arguing and really fighting with people is not something I do. And so I had a kind of a calling to change things back in 2016 2017, I finally admitted it, I got into the online space. And at first, I tried to be a good boy, I tried to do what I was told, just listen to what everybody was doing and follow, you know, follow this path. And, you know, what's happened since then once and that didn't keep, you know, and so, and I think, I think there's something to that, like, you know, what is it a zebra can't change its stripes. It's kind of like with me, I couldn't stop asking, why are we doing this? And looking for deeper things and deeper meanings. And that's kind of how my business has come about since then.

Winston Faircloth: 6:06

Your Business has really grown, because you have asked those probing questions. And I've heard you say, on some of your podcasts in the past, how these gurus and others who basically put something out there, they don't necessarily even have the answer to the why they just are doing what they've been told. And now they're passing it down to the generations of other students.

Bobby Klinck: 6:29

Yeah, I feel like we're playing a very bad game of telephone. And so what started is like one piece of one thing of, of one tactic maybe that you might want to use has gotten passed down as if it's lore. And this is the way instead of one piece, and this is like, a lot of this has happened, where I mean, I honestly believe everybody's I shouldn't say everybody's teaching, this has good intentions. But I believe most of the people have good intentions. This is what they've been taught. This is what we've been made to believe. And even with me, like Kenny, and I will have discussions about like, a lot of the famous or not famous, but the stuff, we hear a lot about mindset stuff. Where were, we just we didn't even question it. And here's one that that Katie and I had to talk about forever, like the old people don't act unless they invest that notion that we have to make people pay for stuff to actually take action. You know, for a long time. We both believe that Katie and I were talking about that. And then we're like, oh, no. And again, I asked the question, I said, know that it's a it's a correlate this a causation correlation problem. If you give something away for free, you'll have a lot more people grab it, who won't take action. But the action takers will take action, regardless of whether you charge and we've seen that proven out, you know, and it's just like, seeing the counter examples is what helps like there's a woman who was in my coaching program last year on scholarship the entire year. And she went from nothing to a six figure business because she was committed, she was ready to go. And she wanted to take action. And so anyone who wants to tell me, people won't take action, or say, No, but see Melanie, and I'll see say, Look at her. And there's counter examples for all of this stuff we're being taught. And so that's kind of where I just look at it. And I'm willing to push boundaries, because I think it's it's part of my calling, I guess to do that.

Winston Faircloth: 8:16

And your online business career air quotes so far has I got to know you initially through your, your template catalogue through a mutual mentor and a powers in terms of your connection with her, but that you've really broaden your your reach and the kinds of things you're doing now.

Bobby Klinck: 8:36

Yeah. And again, this is where I also do say that I was, again, we all here we believe in Divine Providence, and I was put here for a reason. And I was put in the position I was put for a reason. And I joke with people, when I got into the online space, I was selling a product that nobody wants, and where the good results are. Nothing happened. Think about how fun it is to get those testimonials, was it I bought Bobby's templates, and nothing happened. I mean, that's literally that's a testimony. That's a good win for my clients. And so there was that, but also like it is the ultimate in prevention in prophylactic product. And so it's not the kind of thing where the traditional direct response, like let's get people let's funnel on let's get them to buy right away works. It just does. And so in a sense, I had to try a different way. Luckily, I was raised by a father who was a businessman who ran a chain of drugstores, who I was learning even though at the time I thought I didn't want to be a business guy wanted to be a lawyer. I was learning how to do business the right way. And so luckily, I was able to just kind of apply that then people started asking me Hey, Bobby, how are you able to actually connect with people online because people noticed that I could connect with people online in many ways deeper than a lot of people can in in person connections. And so they want to know how I was doing that. And again, a lot of people thought it was like couldn't be taught. I said it can be taught I'm just acting like a human being. I'm acting By the golden rule by any sense of what you should do is just how I was acting. And in some ways, that's what I like to say, I'm the most conventional rebel there is in the online space, because my central message is treat people like people. I mean, Katie, Is that about right?

Winston Faircloth: 10:13

Yeah, absolutely. And not as a transaction. And meanwhile, Katie, you are building your business in a parallel universe to Bobby in terms about the same timeframe? Right, in terms of when you came into this work and started?

Katie Chase: 10:26

Yeah, I mean, I've been working in the online space since 2015, is when I started where I actually work. Oddly enough, I was a legal transcript, proofreader, and then I got into transcription. And then I discovered online business through work as a VA because it was so exciting to me to to learn about all the strategies and the mechanics behind building an online business. And so that was back in 2016. When I became a VA and long story short, I learned about Bobby through another podcast and the client I was working with at the time, I'm like, you need his templates. This This is amazing. And I was in the works of building my own training program for other VA s. And I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna grab this template library, we first came out of it. And so I was just like everyone, Bobby, you need to look at as templates are amazing. And so that's kind of how I found out about Bobby and got connected into this world. That was one of his first testimonials on his website. And then we were connected later on with another client I was working with, we've gotten reconnected, but it was over the last few years, we kind of had like touch points of connection as he was building his business. And I was kind of doing my client work and building my business. And but we really got connected in 2019. When I in the process of building my training program business, and it was just, it was like, something was off. Something was like, I know I can do this. I'm really, really smart. I've helped people in multiple seven figure businesses like I know, I know all of the strategy. I know the mechanics, I know how to build a business, but it was just like, every single time I was trying to do the type of work I was doing. It was like running through sand. I just could not get the momentum or the energy or the passion behind it to do it. And then I started pivoting back towards client work, which I loved, I love being able to get results for my clients, help them with their big projects. A lot of my clients weren't techie. And I was like, who I love getting in there and doing all the tech and working on stuff. So he was doing a rebrand at the time. He said I need someone to project manage this. And I'm like, Yeah, I want I'm all on board. So let's do it. So he hired me for that. Meanwhile, I was still trying to build a completely separate part of my business and which was helping people with the tech in their business. And I went through a launch and it just bombed it just bombed I put so much time into it, I actually made myself sick trying to get this off the ground. All the while working with Bobby and loving it loving every minute of it. Everything I was doing was just great. It was lighting me up, but my own business wasn't lighting me up like that. So long story short, Bobby was like, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna convince you to come onto my team permanently as my integrator I'm like, okay, you can try. But I really have this vision of helping online entrepreneurs get over those hurdles, so they can get their giftings and their skills out there to the people that need them, I have this trajectory in my mind, and you're just not going to take me off track. So you know, you try all you want. But of course, he won me over. And it was amazing for me, because I also believe in Providence. It's a very big part of my life. And it was one of those moments where, you know, as we were working together for a few months, I'm like, I actually in my work with Bobby, it doesn't feel like running through sand. I feel like I can run all day long doing what I do with Bobby. And it did not feel that way in my own business. So that's when I realized, you know, I learned a difference between a visionary and integrator, and I'm sure we will be talking about that more soon. But that's when I realized, Oh, my gosh, I'm an integrator. I work really well working in the business. And Bobby, he's a visionary. So he has these big picture big ideas. And that was the stuff I struggled with the most. And so it was just it clicked. It was like puzzle pieces fitting together. And I'm like now I'm where I'm blocked. But also the vision I had for my business of helping so many online entrepreneurs, I'm helping more entrepreneurs now than I ever was working in my business, I'm having more impact, I'm able to interact with people on a level I wasn't able to get to, in my own business. And so that's kind of like a snapshot of how like the timeline of Bobby and I connecting and, and where we are now. It's just amazing. And it was really just a short period of time. 2018 to now it's like a lifetime ago.

Bobby Klinck: 14:29

I let her talk but I have to correct a couple of things. Or elaborate on it. There you go. Okay. What she left out was and again, I think this is an interesting piece like so she bought, she said my temple library. It wasn't my temple library that it was my membership, whatever I called it so she paid $247 to now was getting grandfathered into everything. And this was like my very first successful launch. She was my first testimonial. One of my first but also we stayed connected and I did guest training for her once, like when she was first launching a course and then let her include my website templates as just a free bonus for her people. So that was that was her first time. And then the way we actually started working together was in in 2019, she came back to me and said, I'm going to be doing this again can I was asking me about, you know, including it again, and including my training. And I was saying, Yeah, but I was smarter to say, what are you doing these days? And she told me what she was doing. And I said, Well, she mentioned she was doing some client work and all that and said, Well, here's what I've got going on. And I listed, I think we were having this conversation over Facebook Messenger. I probably listed like 18 paragraphs of the stuff I had going on and said, How can you help me with this? Like, literally, that's what I asked her and I put it on her. And then she came back to me. And she was the one who said, Well, you know, she'd helped me and we chatted, I think we probably got on zoom. I don't remember. But that's kind of a bit of the backstory that she didn't mention that again, it was just this kind of keeping connections and making sure that we continued to stay in touch with each other. And then she is right. I mean, once you did my rebrand, I had to let go My only employee I had at the time in the middle of that. Just to give you a sense, my rebrand was happening while I was out in California, Southern California for two different events. And I let go of my, my one employee a week before that. So Katie was the only one there. And she took care of it. But then I talked to her because I had to let this employee about, hey, how could you help me going forward brought her on. And I mean, I immediately saw what she was doing in my business made perfect sense. And that's where I said, I'm gonna figure out how to structure something. So it works. So that we can work together. And it does make sense to work together. So again, one of the things that I'm good at, I have a lot of flaws. Katie will tell you, I have plenty of flaws. But I am a scary Judge of talent to quote, I think it's the recruit the Chino movie, that's one of the things I can do. And I spotted it in her and I said immediately she is born to be doing this stuff. And I'm gonna figure out a way to make an offer to her that is attractive, so that she can continue to do the things she wants to do, but in my business and not in her own business.

Winston Faircloth: 17:11

And Bobby, I remember that you were coached against hiring somebody that was in their own business, right?

Bobby Klinck: 17:18

Yeah, so everybody I talked to the mastermind I was in, they all said you should not hire an entrepreneur, because it's like, and again, their way of looking at it was, they're not going to be invested in your business, they're not gonna you know, they're gonna have an itch to go do all that, you know, do their things, etc. This was the standard concept that everyone there was talking about. And again, they were the coaching piece, there would have been hire an executive assistant or virtual assistant. And then like making go through the wringer and do all that well, part of my problem was, and for all your listeners, don't be like, Bobby, just to give you a sense, in 2018, I had a quarter of a million dollar business that I did entirely on my own, not even a VA just me 2019. My Online Business didn't grow that much. But a couple of cases came back to life in my law firm. So I had a law firm, and I made the same amount of money working basically half my online business, and I didn't hire anybody until like July. So the problem was, I was at a point where I needed help candidly, and I think Katie will now know like, looking at me, like the notion of using kind of the mailroom strategy where you hire someone at the very bottom and have worked their way up would never work, because I am not a detail person. And if I have to lay out procedures and all that stuff, it's going to be a mess. And so I kind of looked at it this way, like I had her come on as a project manager, like an OBM, basically, an online business manager. And the way I looked at it, when I was bringing it onto my team full time, as I said, worst case, if she sticks around for six months, six months from now, my business will be organized, it's gonna be way better than it is now. And so I looked at it that way. And again, part of it was, because I knew Katie, because we had interacted so much I knew she wasn't gonna be someone who would come on and then like, just like, leave me high and dry with no notice. Like, you know, there are some people who would do that. And that could be a problem. But I just knew that wasn't gonna happen. But I also, again, one of the realities and wins, and I'm sure you've seen this, like, building a business is a lot harder than a lot of people make it seem. And so I knew that there are some people who would just decide, you know, what, if I can make a good living doing something, I love having the impact I want, that's what matters. And I had a feeling that would be Katie, that if she got into the business, and she was seeing it, she was not going to have the itch again, who knows? Maybe a couple years from now, she'll decide she wants to go to something. And that's fine. I mean, but I was, you know, every minute she worked on my business was a blessing to me. And so I'm not going to say no, to an excellent opportunity because of one little thing. Talk a

Winston Faircloth: 19:42

little bit about how, you know, a lot of business owners hit that wall of complexity, and they can get to the point of burnout before they really take action to start investing in a team and it's this chicken or egg concept for a lot of folks they really wrestle with this. What have you or Katie? Either one Have you all seen in terms of getting past that initial chicken or egg situation?

Bobby Klinck: 20:04

Well see my thing is it again, like I said, I'm a horrible example because I waited so long. But I actually recognize my problem was something different the problem I was dealing with, and the reason why I was reluctant to hire was actually because in my law firm, I set up my own law firm, unexpectedly, not because I was wanting to not because I was expecting to, and at first it was just me. And then eventually I hired an associate. So a younger attorney who started with me who stayed with me for I think, was about two years, right around two years, maybe a little bit more. And I had to let her go as I was making the transition into the online space, not because of anything she had done wrong, not because she had had not lived up to expectations, but because I was making this choice to pivot what I was doing, and that conversation was one of the most painful that I've had to have. And again, she was crying. And you know, it was not fun. And that, I think, was the big holdup for me. I was like, What if that happens again, and I was holding on to that. And then again, this is where having coaching was important. My coach said, he said, Well, do you think he asked me first? Did I get value out of having her on my team? I said, Yes. And he said, Do you think she did? And I said, there's no question. She's actually sent me notes since then saying I was the best boss she ever had. She appreciated that time. And he said, so she wouldn't have traded that two years to avoid that pain when she said, No, he said, then quit fixating on the end and start thinking about that two years. And again, it's funny. This is part of that mindset that helped me with thinking about Katie, I was like, I'm not gonna focus on she might leave in a year or two. I'm gonna focus on what can happen in the short term. So that was my thing. That was my Hold up. I don't know what other people's aren't Katie, I don't know what you would say on that. But I mean, that's where my problem was?

Katie Chase: 21:42

Well, I think I mean, most people in online space, the The problem is, I think it's, there's a lot of mindset, but it comes down to money for a lot of people is trying to make that first hire. And, you know, I just want to acknowledge that is a hard decision. Do I spend money on ads? Or do I spend money on health and which one is going to grow my business, and when you're a new business owner, it's hard to discern where which one is most valuable? I think Bobby and I both would say if you can afford help get the hell out. Because then you can focus on the other business, building the high dollar stuff in your business, while they're doing all the canvas stuff, and then the stuff that's taking you away from those things, and you'll actually build your business faster, even though it's gonna feel like it costs more. In the long run, it's actually going to free you up and your time is very, very valuable. And so I mean, those are just lessons that I think online entrepreneurs learn over time, with experience. But I think we've both said it at one point or another that the sooner you can hire as soon as humanly possible

Bobby Klinck: 22:38

hire team. But I do want to put something in there because like, and again, this is where I'm different than most probably a lot of people are just say, hire, hire, hire. I'm like, if you find yourself that you have plenty of time, you don't need to hire yet, right? I mean, it's when all of a sudden you start to feel the time constraints. And again, it could be time constraints in your business, in your life in the combination. I don't care which look, if you have plenty of free time, and you know, you you have time to just, you know, go watch Netflix for four hours during the afternoon. Most days probably don't hire you, right? I mean, you've got the time fill your time first. But no, you're right. I did want to I thought about another block I had part of that was because I waited so long, I had this concern that and Katie will laugh at this. This is this is a bit of my self, what is self assurance showing, I remember saying these words, and now I look back and it's funny, I said part of my problem is that I feel like it's tough, because I'm pretty good at most of these different things in the online space. So I felt like I kind of thought people aren't gonna be able to do as good a job as me. That was where I was. And the irony is now I look at it and I say, that was ridiculous. Like our Bobby Joe on our team, who's the head of our community, and customer support. I mean, back when I was doing it myself, if you email the customer support thing, you're probably gonna get a one to two sentence answer saying, you know, I'm taking care of it. That was it, you know, she's gonna give you you know, much more empathy, much more like, you know, everything. And it was just this notion that I was like, Yes, my team is gonna do it differently than me. But if I get the right team members, they're gonna do it better than me. And better because they're particularly suited for that thing. And like, Katie, I mean, we are the Yin and Yang, right? We always joke like, she makes me listen to her talk about details. And I do, even though she knows that, realistically, the details are for me, because I'm there. Yeah, okay. Sure, whatever, but, but having that detail person is important, right? Because there are a lot of details that that have to be taken care of. And so it's little things like that, that I finally recognized my beat or me being good at this stuff was actually a blessing because that meant I could let go and I didn't have to worry, you know, and I can oversee it, but let it happen to you. We're making a funny face during that part. I want to give you next word on that one.

Katie Chase: 24:45

It's It's It's true. I mean, like I'm just thinking of all of our conversations. I mean, if they're sometimes I wish that we could have people tuned into our calls because they are comical how excited I get about the details and how Bobby's just like you know, I don't care about these. I'm like, you're Just care for a minute, you don't have to care for the long term, but because I get really excited about them, but I will say what's funny is, even though we hold different roles, he's the visionary and an integrator. And I, he has the visions, and I make them happen. And I integrate the team, make sure everyone's working together and have what they need. I think there's a huge benefit to the fact that I was an entrepreneur. So I want to go back and talk about that. Because when I came on and worked for Bobby, I felt his pain, like I know what it was like to work weekends and not see your family, even though you work from home. And in our space, that's common, like I knew what it was like to spend hours on designing a PDF, when you do not need to be there want to be there and designing that or when a launch doesn't go? Well, I felt that and so I felt like I mean, I know Bobby can probably speak to this having someone that understands your pain. And in as an entrepreneur, when you're in the thick of it, and you're doing the doing and you're having these ideas and and you're in the middle of it is sometimes really hard to recognize when you're getting off in the weeds. And sometimes I'd have to go and like Bobby, let's protect your time Do not do that this weekend. That's not a priority. And vice versa. He has helped me do that. Because there's a lot of details that I'll focus on intently. And he is like, that's not a detail we need to focus on. That's not what you need to be focusing on. And it's very much because we both been in the entrepreneur space, but also the dynamic, the personality, whatever it is, we it works so well, we're able to counterbalance one another when we need to. And I don't think that it would work as well, especially with Bobby's personality, had I not understood what he was going through as an entrepreneur, I want

Bobby Klinck: 26:38

to echo that because I want to be honest, that's one of the things why I think that advice don't hire someone out of business is is so counterproductive for a lot of people because honestly, no one will understand your pain, like someone who tried to build their business. And so it's not just Katie, you know, the newest member of our team is not really that new, but Shelley was building her own business too. So I know that they understand what's involved. They understand, like they understand false starts, they understand trying stuff that doesn't work, they understand all of these different things. And I mean, it's also nice, they understand marketer math, right. So they understand that when we have you know, we have these big revenue numbers, that doesn't mean that, you know, I'm, you know, buying myself a Lamborghini or something ridiculous like that. So, you know, all of that is so helpful. And again, I mean, candidly, the fact that Katie understands it well basically mean, she's now my coach as much as anything else. And I think I'm her coach, we are each other's primary coaches. And it's good because we have different problems, we have different issues that kind of plague each of us. I mean, we both work too hard and need someone to maybe help us with that. But it's been very helpful that we have that. And I mean, she'll like to her I mean, to her credit, she'll say we're not doing something, even if it like because of the way compensation works, it's going to mean that she's going to make less money because she cares about the business and me as much as or more than making it you know, a couple extra dollars. And that's the kind of thing that look, I always joke with people I say, I looked into this, I think I lucked into it because I was open because I did things the right way. But I was lucky basically the first time I hired a true integrator, she was my second hire, but that we we meshed so well. And there was just like something about kind of the skill sets, the personalities, just everything that we mesh. And again, people always ask like, and how can you recreate that it's like, look at my good bottle that recreate that I'd be a billionaire right now, I can tell you what we've done. But it really is kind of a mutual respect, I think is the big thing as much as anything else.

Katie Chase: 28:32

I agree. And I mean, one of the questions we get from a lot of our clients, just people in our audience even is how do I find a Katy? And I'm like, we have had that question so many times, and we've discussed it, okay, how can we put this into a framework so that they can find the right person? And it is it is very difficult. And I try to sit there and reverse engineer what makes this work. And I think that it was I could speak to integrators. And I can speak to entrepreneurs in some way. But I what what attracted me to Bobby was a few things. First of all, the fact that he came into my community and he was so available. I was like that's an entrepreneur I could get behind. He wasn't looking for something for me. He was just there to serve. And that was in total alignment with my values, and then getting to work with him on the project he was easy to work with. And not because he didn't care about about stuff, but he was just super easy and realistic to work with. And yes, our personalities match, but sometimes they clash. Like let's be honest, sometimes our personalities totally clash. It is not, you know, rainbows all the time. But there is like you said there is a mutual respect there because and I said this when we were at an integrator day with James Wedmore. So they hosted an integrator day where people on his coaching program could bring their integrators and I was at the table speaking to a couple people and I said something that I think a lot of people were like, oh wait a second, and This is really true of any relationship you have. But especially when you're a visionary integrator relationship is there's no problem that you're coming out from opposite sides. Because you, you want the same thing you want the growth of the business, you want to serve your people. Well, you want to serve your team, well, you want a healthy, long term successful business. And that's when I come at a problem with Bobby Yeah, we can be coming at it from two totally different perspectives. But from the same side, because we want the same thing for the business. We're on each other side, we have each other's backs. And so but that's, that's how I do relationships with people. And when that's not reciprocated, in a business relationship, like a visionary integrator, that's where you have tension that is actually detrimental to the business. And I think even in even in the, in the tension that we have, we don't have that kind of tension, because we want the same thing.

Bobby Klinck: 30:51

And when so you made a mistake by saying you were just gonna wrap this up and let us talk because I've got a I've got to come in here. Because again, and I like Katie, like this may seem throwing her under the bus, but it's not. Um, and what I have to say is like some of the people who say, How do I find a Katie, we get in, and we've talked to them. And, and it's clear to us that they think Katie never makes mistakes. And they think that that's the problem. And so like, they'll have someone who makes one mistake while you're gone. And you know, Katie will admit she makes mistakes. But again, I think this is part of it. And it goes into what you call level three leadership, when I think of it is level five leadership from good to great, which I hadn't even read until recently. But I said I'm reading it, I was laughing out loud, because a lot of it is like I would say describes me. And and this is gonna sound very weird, because I talked about self assurance. But one of the things about, you know, top level leader is that they are humble in a very particular way. And what that means is, number one, you hear me talking about luck, I don't think it's because I'm so good that all these things have happened. I attribute a lot of it to luck. But also, even though we joke and I have a shirt that says hashtag blame Katie, and we joke about that externally, at least, I think Katie would admit, most times I say, if there's a mistake, I made it, I don't I don't ever say my team did it. It's me. And that actually comes from it's funny when I was a lawyer. And it doesn't come from this, but it worked. Well. When I was a lawyer, I practiced as a prosecutor in Fort Worth, Texas as a federal prosecutor. And there was two judges there, one of which was a judge who literally had his entire docket taken away from him for an entire year for mistreating lawyers, because he was known to be very difficult. And one of the things that I was taught, and I would have done this anyway, like if my assistant made a mistake, if you're in that courtroom, you don't do that. You say I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you take two steps back, you say I'm sorry, again. And that's the approach I bring to life. I'm like, Look, if there's a mistake in my business, it's mine. It's on me. It's on anyone else. And so I think that level of responsibility, and again in Good to Great the way Jim Collins describes it is these great leaders mistakes are on me greatness is on my team. And I honestly believe that I mean, because I can see, you know, my team, my growth has exploded since I brought a team on and they do things in a way that I could never have done. But again, it's weird, because I'm very self assured. I'm quite sure that I know what's good for the business. But I'm also humble in that sense that I don't you know, I'm not here saying that this business is because of me. Yeah. And

Katie Chase: 33:14

I want to add to that, we're going to keep going Winston. And I think again, that's another reason. Another thing about Bobby that attracted me to being on his team was that it was a safe place to fail. And a lot of places and if you're an entrepreneur looking at building a team, they don't create that safe space. So there's amazing people who are people and make mistakes that are being let go of teams, because people are expecting a certain level of perfection and not creating that safe space. If you want longevity in your team, you create an environment where people can grow. And that implies that they're going to be making mistakes. And so, you know, just like we talked about, I happen to have experience as an entrepreneur. So I can relate to Bobby on that. I've also had the experience of being an employee and with not very good bosses, I know what it's like every day, to try to please a boss and never feel like you can please them. And I want to make sure now that I'm creating an environment for my team that we celebrate the failures, and we celebrate the wins. And it's totally okay for you to fail. Because we know Bobby knows, one of the reasons he's gotten to where he has gotten as an entrepreneur is because he did it wrong a lot of the way and then learn how to do it the right way. You know what I mean? And most entrepreneurs are doing that. That's the kind of environment that we want to create for our team as well is we want you to fail because we know that's where the learning the good learning the growth happens

Winston Faircloth: 34:45

if one of my mentors says that you're either on the winning team or you're on the learning team and and and you know, failure is the best teacher sometimes Baba

Bobby Klinck: 34:55

Yeah, so Winston, I wanted to just, I'm gonna pull something very quickly out and then you can ask next Question, I want listeners to key in on a couple of little phrases that Katie used in there. She didn't describe it as Bobby's team, she said, mighty, and our team. And that, I think, is another key element, like it. And Katie will admit, at first, I had to coach her on that. But I've said, This is not my business, this is our business. And I think that's part of it, too. She's now bought in 100%. So I don't have to, you know, I know that she treats this as her business as her team, just like I would, and so I don't have to think twice about it. So I was betting that a lot of people didn't pick up on that. And I just wanted them to hear that, that that's how she described the team.

Katie Chase: 35:37

It's not just our business, or my business, our team, my team, this is my vision. So going back to my business and the vision, I had to build it. My vision is Bobby's vision. And his vision is my vision. It's just it's, it's exactly the same. I had it in my mind. Usually, when you have an idea of how things are going to go, you have you put your pictures to it, you put your timeframes to it, Bobby did the same thing when he thinks this stuff. But it wasn't until I let go of those things. And I started realizing holy cow those line up perfectly. This is my vision. I agree with our core, the core values are my core values as a person. That's how I wanted to run my business. I'm bought in and you can you can have that with the team without them having their own business. Like you don't have to just hire entrepreneurs in your business. But the alignment is what you're looking for alignment and core values, alignment and vision. And when you can get someone into that where they adopted as their own, you're gonna have a winning team.

Winston Faircloth: 36:36

Yeah, I was I was coming back to your comment about being an entrepreneur, Katie. And also how that probably because you had to manage both the income and outgo the value that you were creating that may have given you a different perspective than the typical employee. Kodak was definitely

Katie Chase: 36:55

Yeah, I mean, I've I, I worked in businesses from top to bottom I've, I've seen a lot of different areas. I know the investment it takes in time and money, how it looks. I mean, I've been blessed with the opportunity to have experienced business from different angles. And I do think that that that has lended, to my ability to relate to Bobby to have a certain kind of compassion on what he's going through to be firm where I need to be firm, because he said one of the things he's told me early on is no is a complete sentence. When you tell me no, it means no. And that was hard. That was another thing. Yeah, to coach me. And Bobby is when to tell him? No, because I had to get out of the mindset that Bobby was my client and really understand that Bobby is my equal here. We're on the same level. Yeah, he's the owner. I'm not an owner. I don't own any part of the business. But in terms of his role and my role in the business, he's my equal. And if he tells me No, it means now, but if I tell him no is the integrator because I'm looking at all these things that were up like workload of the team, you know, all those different things, looking at the finances all that stuff? If I say no, that means no. And I hate being the person that says no, but sometimes that's for the health of the business or the health of our team, and vice versa. I mean, he said no to me, and many times, because he did, he did not agree with my perspective. And either way that goes in your business, especially if you're you're in leadership, you have to have an open mind to receive it to receive the noes to receive the the alternate perspective that is totally against what you're thinking and be willing to accept when you might be thinking things in a wrong way. And sometimes, you know, we've had conversations when I still believe I'm right, but I'm not going to be so staunch in my belief that this one strategy is wrong or right that I'm going to have it affect that integrator visionary dynamic, because I don't want that in this space. This is more important than whatever thing I'm holding on to that I think I'm right on. And you know, who knows it sometimes it proves out he's right. Sometimes it proves that I'm right. I mean, it just it is what it is. But I think right leadership, you got to set aside ego like it has to go in every sense of the word it has to go if you want to make it work.

Bobby Klinck: 39:11

Yeah. And let me let me share something. And again, we talked about this, we don't hide this, but Winston, this is something where I think it's fair to say that the way I have structured our compensation is probably unique among any example of someone like me, who's a visionary started a business and then brought an integrator we get paid exactly the same in the business. Hernan I view her role as important. Now, when we're making profits, Bobby takes profits as the owner as my owner, but that's not for the work I'm doing in the business. It was funny, I was talking with one of my accountant, friends and clients who was no I don't know what the IRS would say about that and reasonable salary. I said, I will defend that to my death. I will go before the IRS and I will tell them her role in the business is worth as much as mine. I'm not somehow more important, maybe in the face of business is great. If it works, not getting done. We're not making money and so So that's something and this was from reading. I don't know if it's rocket fuel attraction, but one of them talks about how you like the visionary integrator role is very much a partnership. It is not I boss you around. No, it is a partnership, that of people who are essentially equals doing very different things in the business. And I've adopted that. And again, I think I think Katie would say that that is part of the reason why she can buy in all this and again, why she makes these decisions. And luckily, when she makes a decision, now, that hurts her comp, it's also gonna hurt my comp, but that way it's across the board, but we are 100% aligned. And again, maybe we're not the only people out there. But I've told that to other people, they're like, You're nuts. I'm like, okay, fine, I don't care. I you know, that's the way that I'm going to view things. And I believe it's the right way to view things.

Katie Chase: 40:45

Yeah. And I would say, 100%, the way Bobby's structured, that is what helps me buy into the vision. And again, I'm not talking about the money, it's not the money, it's the way I was valued. And that's different than how I feel valued is worth more to me than money. And that's how I can say, this promotion that we're doing, Bobby, I'm seeing that it's really corrosive to you and your energy. And this is not good for the business and not good for you, it's not good for your family, I'm gonna get I'm gonna forfeit whatever bonus I was going to get from this, and we are going to not do that promotion, I know, you're not going to get a bonus, I'm not going to get a bonus, but you're going to get better rest, you're going to show up better in your business. And that's what they care about the fact that I can make those decisions. And he says, okay, tells me I'm valued. And that's what I had in my own business minus the ability to actually make impact because my business was struggling. And so I have that now. And that, to me, helped me bind to this vision and adopted as my own because I do feel like I am I am part of the vision. I'm not just a cog in the business that makes this someone else's vision move forward. I am part of it. And that was important to me. Yeah, I

Winston Faircloth: 41:54

don't think I've ever heard that expressed before, especially in the online space.

Bobby Klinck: 41:59

Yeah. I mean, but if you look at like rocket fuel attraction, you look at the classic duo's, I mean, it's it's Steve Jobs. And what was that? It's it's people who literally were partners. And again, I think a lot of people don't recognize, but but I mean, you could talk about a lot of things, you could look at the E myth revisited, where there's like the technician, the manager, and the entrepreneur, and all of those roles have to be filled. And I think a lot of the entrepreneurs who are struggling in building a team and building a culture and in having the impact they want, it's because candidly, they think too highly of themselves. And they don't recognize that getting that other piece, like whichever side it is, if you are like me, I'm heavy visionary. And so I needed someone who has a very strong integrator to do it. If you're only slightly visionary, you need, you know, something, but you need that counterbalance. Because otherwise you're you're gonna be having a problem. And, and again, I want to be clear, if the business does well, I'm still gonna make more money, because I'm an owner, right? I have that. But people have to get out of this. And again, this is, I guess, part of my benefit of having come from a more traditional world and having worked for public companies and all that where I understand that there's a difference between the owner hat and the CEO hat, the what the working in the business hat, that's a very traditional thing, right? I mean, if you own stock, you're getting paid part of the profits of the company and dividends. Well, that's what it is in our business. But you know, I just happen to also be the primary work or one of the primary workers in the business, but I think I to me again, and Katie would say this, like, let me be clear, when I say I'm humble, I'm not humble in the sense that I ever think I'm wrong. I think Katie would say, I pretty much always think I'm right, I will let I will, you know, bend I will make decisions. But like, like she said, once a decision is made, it's made. But I also recognize that, you know, at some level, giving up some of that, and I think I think my self confidence is part of what allows me to do that. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel like somehow, you know, if I let someone else have a role, but from that Katie, Katie knows more about what's going on in the business than I do at any given day. I mean, that is hands down no questions, because I don't get into detail. And so she knows those things. I don't. And so all of this kind of to me just fits as well. Yeah, I mean, she's not equal, no questions, she should be paid my equal as working in the business salary wise,

Winston Faircloth: 44:13

talk a little bit about how this has freed you up, because I, you know, everyone has heard this kind of pairing before in terms of the visionary integrator and one of the mentors I've listened to talks about that you really need three personalities in a team to really make it work you need the person that makes it up person makes it real, and the person that makes it repeat. You know, this has really freed you up to to stay in that visionary role. How's that translated for you in the last year?

Bobby Klinck: 44:41

Well, I mean, it's, it's so funny cuz I can think back and, and I will tell you the moment that I said, Wow, okay, I get it now. Okay. Because it was when when Katie came on as my project manager manager, so it was in November of 2019 and I was at a retreat with a mastermind, I was doing a workshop or some I don't remember I was calling him but it was like called find your fans. And I was like, Oh, I need a workbook. And I mentioned it. And like, I guess I had slides put together at that point in case said, Okay, we'll take care of that. So Katie and her VA do it. And all of a sudden, like, they take it. And within like, less than 24 hours, I get a workbook back that I'm like, this would have taken me a week, and mine wouldn't have been nearly this good. Why did I wait so long to do this. And that's like, one little moment of things. But it's, it's, it's all the things like I at this point. I mean, sometimes I get into the details, sometimes I still do those things. But it has freed me up to do the vision. And what I basically say is, at this point, I'm doing the top of the funnel. And the bottom of the funnel is basically the way I look at it, the top of the funnel, I'm the one who is the face, who's coming up with the ideas. I'm an idea person, I am a content generator, just by nature, because I'm constantly having new thoughts, new ideas. And that's part of my genius, or whatever you want to call it, we all have our genius, I'm not saying I'm a genius, but that's part of my skill set, my superpower is seeing things having ideas, being able to put things in different ways. So that's kind of the front end content, the free stuff. So I do that. And then I deal with serving clients, and not just clients, I also serve in the free stuff, but largely, you know, coaching people, etc. And that's all I have to do. Now, I want to be clear, I'm still doing a lot. And we're ramping up content to be more and more and more. So you know, pretty soon we'll have a piece of content, like either a video or a podcast or a blog post, we're hoping coming out every single day of the week, during the week. And so there's a lot of content involved. But that's all I have to do. And those are my zones of genius, the stuff I love doing, and the stuff that I'm best at, and the stuff that only I can do. Like, I'm the only one who can come up with these new ideas. No, other people come up with new ideas, but they wouldn't be mine. Right. So it's freed me up. And if you look at the evolution of my messaging, the evolution of kind of what I've done in the last, like since November of 2019. I mean, it's, it's a no brainer to see how things have moved, you know, in ways that I couldn't have done before, because I would have had to worry about building a funnel, doing all that stuff. And, you know, all the little things that have to get done, which now I don't have to worry about. And I'm trying to get Katie to do less of it and get our team to do more of it. But it's even just having like, I don't have to manage it, I don't have to hold mental space. And that's why I say like, I will pay attention to her and I can pay attention to details, but she knows he's gonna come in and go out. Because part of it is I if I'm holding mental space for that, that's mental space, I'm not holding for the stuff I want to be doing and should be doing and they can move the business forward.

Winston Faircloth: 47:53

It he talked about the the culture piece of it, too, because I know that's been a really important part of your contribution. In terms of forming the team, you and I talked a little bit about your core values and some of that earlier that last year, talk about how you talked about how that is aligned with you. But how does that filter now into the team?

Katie Chase: 48:12

Well, that's a really good question. I mean, first of all, our core values have grown and evolved a bit since I came on. I mean, we still have a core values of Bobby set in place. As time has gone on and issues come up in our business, we have sat down like Okay, what about this, our core values currently don't address this specific issue. Like we added this last year, we added the core value be inclusive. And those are our that's those are like campuses, when we make every decision in our business, how are we meaning? How are we being inclusive, but not just with our offers, not just with how we build our external assets for our audience. It's also for our team, and how we function in our team and how we are how does our team feel about being part of our team? How do they feel when they're working on projects in the business as part of our team. And so for me, again, having been someone on on teams where I didn't feel like I was part of that I did feel more like a cog and I was, you know, I was just not part of that vision, having those core values from the outset bringing people in and explain to them or even before we hire, I mean we we actually put our core values on our job listings when we're hiring, because we want to make sure that from the second they step in the door and then get it into onto our team and they start working even on a trial basis that our core values are aligned. Because if you if you're working on a team that you don't, this is speaking as a team member, you're working on a team that you really don't agree with how they approach things, and you don't really agree, you know, with their core values, it is just not going to be a good environment for you to work in. You are working in an environment that's contrary to your core values. And we when we hire we don't want that for people. We don't want that for our team and we don't want that for other people. People that we would be bringing on our team. And so having that at the outset of even hiring is really, really important. I think, Bobby, do you have anything else to say on that in terms of how our core values really, so part of it is, a lot of people claim a claim. Yeah,

Bobby Klinck: 50:16

I should say they claim to have core values, they have the values that are on some somewhere written down, but nobody really follows them or lives them. I think the difference was, like, I created core values, like within my membership, which predated Katy joining, my team called the fans for society. And I was describing them as these are the core values that I live by, but that also will help you create raving fans. But I didn't like I didn't go out and say, Well, what do I want my core values to be? No, no, I looked and said, What am I doing? How am I living? Because I think part of it is, and Katie made this comment, like so she and I really thought about it because she reposted something she had posted a year ago, when we first met in person where she said, there is no different Bobby, I am 100% me no matter what, whether you're in a team meeting, you're seeing me in person, you're seeing me at an event, you're seeing me serving my community, you're seeing me no matter where I am, I am the same person. And so what that is done, and it's not just for team, like my audience is made up of people who who resonate with that. And then my team, I just draw those people to me, because if they don't like the way I operate, if they don't like the way I'm living my life, they're not going to be in my world no matter what. And so I mean, I think that's a big part of it. And again, we could talk about all the different core values, but but really, when people think of me, they probably think of two most importantly, one is radical gaming. And the other one is that we make business fun. And I honestly believe that I think if you're not having fun in your business, and I don't mean every single day, but if you're not having fun, there's something wrong. That's like a big warning sign. But to get back to like Katy Brink being be inclusive to us, that's almost just like, Well, duh. I mean, it's this thing where, like, we recognize, like, at some point, so in the lead up to our event that we ran in December, where we announced my bomb you my free training program, where we're just giving all of our stuff away for free. We're training people, we're adding courses, all that. And again, I think I raised it beforehand. Like in the week of the lead up, I said, Katie, do you realize that this literally is just us. And I was before after this is just us living out our be inclusive, we want to make entrepreneurship inclusive, so that people who can't afford to go and buy all the $1,000 courses can still learn what they need. And it hit her because it didn't even hit me that, you know, I'm not I'm not out there, like, talking about values, we're just living. And I think that's a big piece of it. So that I mean, if people don't like that, they're not gonna ever. I mean, they're just not gonna come into my world, because they really knew this guy's nuts. I don't want to be around him. And that's fine.

Katie Chase: 53:02

Yeah. And it's funny that you mentioned that because I totally forgot about that with bomb you, when we were looking at that. He we had said that we had set that as one of our core values, months, months before that. But he was like, did you realize we didn't sit down intentionally? How can we make this more inclusive? He was it just clicked for him? Did you do you realize that we are living our core values without even trying and that's how, you know, you've got good core values. And again, I want to go back to our core values. It's not just again, it's not just how we show up for our audience, it doesn't just dictate the kinds of offers we make. Those are how we show up for each other and behind the scenes 100% of the time. And again, it's not that we have to think about doing that. It's because that's the culture that we've created from the outset, when someone is hired onto our team. They know whether or not to reply to that job posting, based on how we treat each other how we treat our people in our audience, no matter if they're buyers or team members. And that's that's huge. And that's that's I mean I've I've it's that's kind of lost on some people in the space. A lot of people look at I'm the entrepreneur I'm hiring people to help me get these things done so I can make more sales. But there is no service to the people who are doing the doing in your business. There's no there's no thought process of service there's no mentality of service to those people. It's all how can we create more value for the people we serve it sometimes not even that but how can we create more value put more content or or make more sales is usually what it sounds like how can we make more sales and that is that is like the driving factor for the person heading the business. Hey, I need you to get this thing done because we need to make a sale I need you to do this because we need to make a sale we need to increase the numbers. Meanwhile, they don't realize that their internal team is imploding. Those people are probably looking for their next opportunity that's outside of the team. Because they don't have a home. And so when you create a team environment, you have those core values to anchor you to keep Bobby and I, since we're kind of leading the whole team anchored and on track, we have our Northstar, we have our compass here, we're anchored, that means that's where the team is going to be. And we're creating a home environment for our team to stay long term. And of course, it there, there's always going to be turnover and team. I mean, it just happens to be that way, there are going to be people that come and people that go, right now our team is like, as far as we know, they're, they're like long term team members. I know, I'm not going anywhere, I'm not going anywhere. I don't want to speak for the rest of the team. But from the feedback we've gotten, they're in it to win it. And that is what you want. And I think the core values really, really help establish that. Well, and

Bobby Klinck: 56:00

here's something Munson I mean, I, I got to one of the things I love teaching people and telling people The great thing, my job is the same whether I'm talking to my audience, or the team, my job is to lead. My job is to lead to set a vision to cast that vision for them, and to help them achieve it. And that's one of the most freeing things for me is because I'm the same no matter what, I don't have to say, Well, what hat am I wearing? No, I'm just being me. And I like telling people this that. And again, we could get into too geeky marketing stuff, like under the current concept of marketing. Marketing involves your relationship with your team, just FYI, that's part of marketing. But to me, it's the same. Like and I love the way you put it, you know, I went I went listen to Episode 68 the way you described it, like, I know that like Bobby Jo, our community manager is going to be interacting with people in a lot of cases before I do, and if I don't have her bought into my vision to my values, etc. How can I know that my people are gonna have the right experience? And so like, to me, it's just you know, anybody who's trying to do anything different between team and audience, stop it, stop it be the same. And that will serve you so well.

Winston Faircloth: 57:21

All right, friends, that's just part one of this incredible interview. I hope you come back next week for part two, where we finish this conversation and just so many more pearls to come. Alright friend. Finally, I'm curious about where you are on your journey of building a team that you love. This is the path for level of team is the path that helps you multiply your impact your income, your margin and freedom and business. This is a world you can have it imagine where you can surround yourself with others doing work. They love simplifying your own business processes so that ultimately you can serve more focused on the work that you love. It just takes focus and intentionality. So if this is interesting to you, you need support. Text me right now. 1-754-800-9461 text me or leave me a voicemail there there's no autoresponders or bots. Just me. I want to hear from you at 1-754-800-9461 ever remember, leader simplify teamwork multiplying your impact your income, your margin and freedom and business. I'll catch you on the next episode.